1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:29,800 Why does this woman from New Mexico, every Easter, display the wounds of Christ? 2 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:36,800 For half a century this Italian priest also bore the marks of the crucifixion. 3 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,800 And so, since she was 10, has this girl from California. 4 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:46,800 Are they miraculous signs from heaven or curiosities of earthly medicine? 5 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,800 Mysteries from the files of Arthur C. Clarke, scientist, writer and visionary, 6 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,800 the scientist who invented the communication satellite, the writer of 2010, 7 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:02,800 and now in retreat in Sri Lanka, the visionary who ponders the riddles of this and other worlds. 8 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:13,800 For over 700 years, Roman Catholics have revered a tiny but growing band of people 9 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,800 who appear to bleed with the wounds of Christ. 10 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,800 They're called stigmatics, and the wounds they show, stigmata, 11 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,800 mimic those of Christ on the cross, the bleeding hands and feet, 12 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,800 the crown of thorns, the pierced side. 13 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,800 Many stigmatics have attracted huge bands of followers. 14 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:40,800 Some have become saints, others have been denounced as heretics or frauds. 15 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,800 Behind the religious phenomenon lies a fascinating medical mystery 16 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,800 that doctors are still trying to untangle. 17 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:15,800 Music 18 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,800 Spring in New Mexico. 19 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,800 Preacher Lucy Rael heads home for a unique celebration of Easter. 20 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,800 You're tuned to KKIT Tows New Mexico 1340 on your AM Radio Dial. 21 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:38,800 This is Evangelist Lucy Rael reminding you that I will be coming home to the Bethel Deliverance Church in Tows 22 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:45,800 for two great Easter services on Sunday, April the 22nd at 5 a.m. in the morning and 7 p.m. at night. 23 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,800 Remember all the marks of Christ's crucifixion appear in my body at this time. 24 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:55,800 For Lucy Rael, these Easter services in Tows bring a break from her missionary tours of America 25 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:03,800 and a chance to show family and followers at home the stigmata which never failed to appear on the anniversary of the crucifixion. 26 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,800 Hi, Brian. How are you? 27 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,800 During Easter time, all the marks appear in my body. 28 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:14,800 That is an imprint of crown of thorns comes upon my forehead, and I also get the nail prints in my hands, 29 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:20,800 and then I get the nail prints on my feet, and that also goes from top to bottom of my feet, 30 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:30,800 and I get the stripes on my back, and I get a wound on my side, the same side that Jesus was pierced during the time of the crucifixion. 31 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,800 My daughter also Angelica, the stigmata pierced in her body also. 32 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:41,800 Angelica was just three weeks old when she first cheered the signs. Her wounds mimicked her mother's. 33 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:51,800 At every church, Lucy packs in the people. They come to witness the stigmata and enjoy her spectacular brand of evangelism. 34 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:09,800 Led by Lucy, the worshippers work themselves into a frenzy, yet the evening's emotional high is still to come. 35 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:18,800 Hallelujah. I want some of you people to come up to the front and help pray for just a few moments. 36 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,800 Glory to God, hallelujah. 37 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,800 Apparently, quite suddenly, the wounds in Lucy's hands begin to open. 38 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,800 My God, the blood is coming. Come on and praise the Lord. 39 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,800 People, the blood is beginning to come. Hallelujah. 40 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,800 Oh, I'm feeling the power of God. 41 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:42,800 I am feeling the peace of Christ. I am feeling the joy of the Lord. Hallelujah. 42 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,800 I am feeling His power all over me. Come on and praise Him tonight. Hallelujah. 43 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:54,800 This is just a miracle. Praise the Lord. Come on and get closer if you like to see it. Hallelujah. Praise the Lord. 44 00:04:54,800 --> 00:05:03,800 Thank you Jesus. There's a little bit of the blood. Just a tiny, seems to be there's a tiny little wound. Praise the Lord. Hallelujah. 45 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,800 Lucy believes this stigmata are a sign that she has the power of healing. 46 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:14,800 Thank you Jesus. Hallelujah. God in the name of Jesus, I claim a miracle right now. 47 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,800 Lord, the devil just touched you right now. The church is feeling right now. God in the name of Jesus. 48 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:26,800 Oh God, give her a miracle right now. In the name of Jesus, somebody take care of that woman. Thank you Jesus. 49 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,800 Are you the male, that one? Are you the madam? 50 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,800 The faithful accept the stigmata without question. To them there is certain miracle. 51 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:40,800 And there there are skeptics. Lucy is serene in her conviction that the wounds are a gift from God. 52 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:48,800 A lot of people may actually say that this is a fraud or they don't believe. But we can't force anyone to believe. 53 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:54,800 You know, everyone has the right to their belief. We know that there's not everybody's going to believe. 54 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:00,800 And all I can do is just pray. Well, we just love them all. We love the believers and we love the unbelievers. 55 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,800 So we just love everyone and we just pray for them. 56 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:09,800 The first to show stigmata was St. Francis of Assisi. His wounds appeared in 1224. 57 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:17,800 In 1375 St. Catherine of Siena claimed rays of light from a crucifix burned into her hands, feet and chest. 58 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:25,800 German Anne Catherine Emmerich suffered from the stigmata for 13 years, every Easter until she died in 1824. 59 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:32,800 For four years from 1899 Italian Gemma Galgani bled every week on Thursdays and Fridays. 60 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:39,800 From the 1920s to the 50s Therese Neumann relived the crucifixion every weekend in Konersreuth, Germany. 61 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,800 Blood flowed copiously from her face, feet and chest. 62 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,800 But fellow German Otto Muck from Berlin failed to impress the experts in the 1930s. 63 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,800 They said his wounds were self-inflicted. 64 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:58,800 And the claims of this woman, Italian Giliola Giorgini, have fared just as badly. 65 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:10,800 Wounds on her arms, which she said were stigmata, brought her fame, followers and riches, including this luxurious villa near Rome. 66 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:15,800 But in 1984 the religious order she'd founded was exposed as a front for corruption. 67 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,800 Giliola Giorgini was jailed for 10 years. 68 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:28,800 The stigmata of Maria da Concezao from Portugal are still being investigated by doctors. 69 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:37,800 While a self-styled Pope Clemente Gomez uses his stigmata to attract vast congregations to his cathedral in southern Spain. 70 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,800 But the most venerated stigmatic of modern times was Padre Pio. 71 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,800 His wounds appeared in 1918 and bled for half a century. 72 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,800 Each day before dawn huge crowds queued to hear him say mass. 73 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,800 When the church doors were opened pilgrims jostled for the best view of the man they revered as a saint. 74 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,800 Padre Pio was credited with miracles of healing. 75 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,800 He was said to have the gift of prophecy. 76 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:20,800 But it was the wonder of the stigmata that brought the worshipers in their hundreds of thousands to see him. 77 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:29,800 In the place where he lived and preached, San Giovanni Rotondo, a town grew up, complete with one of Italy's finest hospitals. 78 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,800 A major centre of pilgrimage where once there had been only a primitive friary. 79 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,800 Padre Pio was in the friary chapel in September 1918, 80 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,800 praying in front of the crucifix when the stigmata first appeared. 81 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:54,800 He was actually sitting over in this first place in the gallery, making his Thanksgiving after mass. 82 00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:00,800 The actual physical stigmatization seems to have come about in this way. 83 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:07,800 That from the resurrected body of Christ, which was in front of Padre Pio on that 20th of September 1918, 84 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:13,800 from the spot of the crucifixion on our Lord's resurrected body came rays of light, 85 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,800 which a Dublin doctor explained to me as signs of energy. 86 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,800 They crossed the room and went over to Father Pio and asked him to come and see him. 87 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,800 He said, I have to go to the cemetery. 88 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:34,800 As signs of energy, they crossed the room and went over to Father Pio and opened the secret wounds which had been on his body for eight entire years. 89 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,800 That's all we know. 90 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,800 The relics of Padre Pio's stigmata are preserved in his cell in the friary. 91 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,800 Here's the window that Father Pio would wave and bless from. 92 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,800 His sandals on the floor in this case. 93 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,800 The shoe size is actually a nine. 94 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:59,800 But as you notice, the sandals are greatly enlarged by the shoemaker because of the swelling from the wounds in the feet. 95 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,800 On the writing table, his books of meditation, his rosary, which he said constantly, 96 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,800 all through the night and all through the day. 97 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:15,800 A plastic box holding the chips of crusted blood which would fall from his hands when he'd take off his gloves to celebrate mass. 98 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:20,800 Here are the gloves in the corner of the desk, which looks like a small handkerchief folded in half, 99 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,800 stained by the blood that would come out from the wound that went through his heart. 100 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:31,800 Soon after this stigmata first appeared, Father Pio hid his hands from the public gaze, 101 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,800 except during mass when the bleeding wounds could be glimpsed. 102 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,800 One of the few to see them at close quarters was Monsignor Michael Buckley. 103 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:44,800 Because I was a student and studying for the priesthood, I was given the special privilege of serving his mass. 104 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,800 And before mass he had mittens and he used to take these mittens off, 105 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,800 and then he had a very long out that covered his hand. 106 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:56,800 Now as a server, I was kneeling behind him and so his hand was between me and the candle. 107 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,800 And when he lifted up his hands to pray, the out fell back from his hands, 108 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,800 and you could see the light of the candle through his hands as if it was filled with blood. 109 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,800 Father Pio's assistant was shocked by the wounds. 110 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:16,800 I had prayed to see them, but unfortunately when I saw them it looked like a leprosand. 111 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,800 I said, God, don't let me see them again. 112 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:25,800 While applying a soothing bandage to his chest, Father Alessio also saw the wound in his side. 113 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:32,800 Not that I made a trick on him, but I tried to unbutton the thing. 114 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:38,800 I did and put the bandage, cool bandage on here. 115 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:45,800 But at the same time I pulled out the dress and I saw a wound here, right down here, 116 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,800 was so large with a cross, but not bleeding. 117 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,800 Just a cross across here. And that's why I saw the wounds on his side. 118 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:02,800 Father Pio died in 1968. More than 100,000 people attended his funeral. 119 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:09,800 The doctors who had examined Father Pio in his lifetime pronounced his stigmata medically inexplicable, 120 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,800 and his death brought no solution. 121 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:17,800 Post-mortem photographs of his hands showed barely a trace of the wounds of 50 years. 122 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:24,800 His side showed only a fine scar. His feet were completely healed. 123 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:32,800 Today in Manfredonia near San Giovanni, this man, the devil's advocate, 124 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,800 is charged with assessing the life of Father Pio. 125 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,800 Don Antonio D'Amico is a member of a Vatican Tribunal, 126 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:45,800 which will decide whether Father Pio should be beatified, the first step to sainthood. 127 00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:02,800 The tribunal presided over by the Bishop of Manfredonia examines witnesses who knew him in his lifetime. 128 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,800 The questions are sent direct from the Vatican, 129 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,800 but the one certain answer is that the mystery of Father Pio's stigmata 130 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:23,800 will remain as tantalizing and unsolved as it has done for half a century. 131 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,800 A curious feature of stigmata is they usually occur in the wrong places. 132 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:35,800 We know that the Romans crucified their victims by driving nails to their wrists, 133 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,800 yet stigmatics bleed from the palms of the hands. 134 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:46,800 Moreover, although the Bible says that Jesus was pierced in the side, it doesn't say which side. 135 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,800 Some stigmatics bleed from the right, others from the left. 136 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,800 They can't all be correct. 137 00:13:52,800 --> 00:14:00,800 What the wounds of stigmatics do match are those shown in the pictures and crucifixes in their own churches. 138 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:07,800 This strongly suggests that stigmata are produced not by knives or fingernails, 139 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:14,800 as some skeptics have claimed, but by a much sharper instrument, the human mind. 140 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,800 Dr. Albert Mason published an extraordinary case of the mind's influence over the body. 141 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,800 One day I saw this boy being wheeled into the operating theatre, 142 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:31,800 and I thought he was a massive case of warts. 143 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,800 Apart from his face and chest, the rest of his body was covered. 144 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,800 You couldn't put a pin in between these millions of warts. 145 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,800 When the surgeon was trying to operate on his hands, I said to him, 146 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,800 you know, these cases do very well with hypnosis, 147 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,800 and the surgeon gave me a funny look and said, 148 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,800 well, why don't you take him and hypnotise him? 149 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,800 So Dr. Mason took the boy away, hypnotised him, 150 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,800 and told him that within a week one arm would be better. 151 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,800 And he came back in a week, and his arm was fairly clear, almost completely clear. 152 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,800 And I showed this to Mr. Moore, whose jaw dropped open, 153 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,800 and he said, do you know what you've done? 154 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,800 And I said, no, he said, this isn't warts. 155 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,800 This is congenital ecthiosiform erythrodermia of Brock. 156 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,800 He was born with it, it's incurable, it's an organic disease. 157 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,800 Go and look it up in the library. 158 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,800 I looked it up and I came back rather shocked, 159 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,800 because this disease was due to the absence of sebaceous glands in the skin, 160 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,800 and the skin will just piles up on top. 161 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,800 And it's incurable because there are no glands there. 162 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,800 You can't make them come. 163 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,800 And yet somehow that's just what had happened. 164 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:51,800 Some very powerful state of mind must have been engendered by my conviction, 165 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:57,800 my belief, his belief, which sparked this extraordinary reaction. 166 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:02,800 This is a very impressive display of the mind's powers over the body. 167 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,800 Yet here's an even more striking example from the medical literature. 168 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,800 It involves a British officer in World War II. 169 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,800 While unconscious and under heavy sedation, 170 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,800 he developed deep rope marks around his wrists, under the very eyes of the doctors. 171 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,800 It turned out that many years before, he'd been a sleepwalker, 172 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,800 and so he had been tied to his bed to prevent him from wandering around. 173 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:35,800 Now, if the unconscious mind can create anything as specific as rope marks on the skin, 174 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,800 then surely it can also produce stigmata. 175 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,800 Oakland, California. 176 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,800 The New Light Baptist Church. 177 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,800 Clareta Robertson is famed far beyond the boundaries of her parish. 178 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,800 The first recorded non-white and non-Catholic stigmatic. 179 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,800 Her case is unique. 180 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,800 The stigmata first appeared when she was ten 181 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,800 and already an active member of the New Light Baptist Church. 182 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,800 Her hands bled during services. 183 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,800 She became a celebrity. 184 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,800 Reporters asked her if it made her feel special. 185 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:32,800 It's special, but I want her to treat me like a king and a queen, though. 186 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:40,800 Later at Emory High School, the wounds opened up during a maths lesson with teacher Anthony Burris. 187 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,800 Cocoa began to bleed out of her hands. 188 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,800 I mean, it was really just puddles of blood. 189 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,800 And so I took a white piece of typing paper, 190 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,800 and I just scooped it up. 191 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,800 And here it is. 192 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,800 And I just put it in the vial. 193 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,800 And of course, over the years, it has dried some, but there it is. 194 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,800 The vial. 195 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,800 And here are the...that's the actual print right there. 196 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,800 So I just took her out of the classroom, 197 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,800 and we went into the principal's office, 198 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,800 and I asked permission to show her hands to the classes. 199 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,800 She walked in his office and opened her hands, and he was just spellbound. 200 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:28,800 He said, go ahead. 201 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:34,800 Almost every classroom we went, when she opened her hands, it was silence. 202 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,800 She also bled from her forehead, 203 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:42,800 as though she'd been wearing a crown of thorns like Christ on the cross. 204 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,800 At home in suburban Oakland, 205 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,800 Claretta's mother, Alice, was amazed and alarmed 206 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,800 when her daughter first began to bleed with a stigmata. 207 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,800 I saw the blood come from her hands. 208 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,800 I saw the blood come from her feet. 209 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,800 I saw the blood come from her right side, 210 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,800 and I saw the blood screaming, pointing in her face. 211 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,800 But it took me a long time to really believe 212 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,800 that it was what they said was stigmata, you know. 213 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,800 And I said, why am I child? 214 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Claretta's mother took her to visit the pediatric clinic. 215 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,800 It's a little light, you see that? 216 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:25,800 Okay. 217 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,800 Dr. Claretta early remembers the blood flowing from the child's hand, 218 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,800 and she took a film of it. 219 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,800 I observed this blood to somewhat well up in the center, 220 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,800 over an area of about one centimeter, 221 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,800 and spread out to the polymer creases, 222 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,800 and then stopped, over about three to five minutes. 223 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,800 The blood then coagulated, and I wiped that blood off. 224 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:58,800 And for a few minutes, I saw a circular, slightly bluish area 225 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,800 in the center of the palm of the hand, and this disappeared. 226 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,800 After taking a tin-powered lens, 227 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,800 it was somewhat disappointing that I could find no place 228 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,800 where she was bleeding from. 229 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,800 It was significant that during the week prior to this onset, 230 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,800 she was reading a book called Crossroads by John Webster, 231 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,800 a book that I was familiar with, 232 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,800 and it was a book about the crucifixion 233 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,800 and the agony which Christ went through. 234 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,800 And it's a very emotional book of the agony 235 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,800 during those last few hours that Christ was on earth. 236 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,800 Claretta identified closely with Christ's suffering, 237 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,800 Dr. Early concluded. 238 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,800 The intensity of her feelings might have caused her to bleed in sympathy. 239 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,800 The doctors could offer no other explanation. 240 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,800 There was nothing medically unusual about her. 241 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,800 The blood was her own and normal. 242 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,800 For the past ten years, the pastor and his precious parishioner 243 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,800 have wondered why she was chosen to bear the stigmata. 244 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,800 I've often wondered, well, why me? 245 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,800 You know, why not one of my sisters? 246 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,800 Or why not one of my brothers? 247 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,800 But he did choose me. 248 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,800 There are a lot of people that don't believe that there's a God or Jesus, 249 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,800 and I think he did it to show people that there is a God. 250 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,800 As Claretta has grown older, 251 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,800 living with a stigmata has become more of a strain. 252 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,800 I was out to dinner with a friend, 253 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,800 and this is the second time this has happened. 254 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,800 And we were just sitting there. 255 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,800 Matri Dia brought her food. 256 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,800 We were sitting there getting ready to eat. 257 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,800 And I go to put my knackin' across my lap, 258 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,800 and the blood just starts pouring out of my hand. 259 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,800 Now, usually it would web up. 260 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,800 This day, it poured out like something like you're just pouring something out of a glass. 261 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,800 That's the way the blood came out of my hand. 262 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,800 I couldn't explain it to anyone. 263 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,800 You know, I could do anything but sit there and rush to the bathroom. 264 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,800 You know, when it first started, there was no pain. 265 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,800 Just the bleeding, you know. 266 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,800 But as I got older, I started to experience pain, you know, 267 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,800 and my hands, like someone is sticking something and driving something through my hands. 268 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,800 It's a horrible feeling. 269 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,800 The latest in a line of specialists to investigate Claretta Stigmata 270 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,800 is psychiatrist Dr. David Agel. 271 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,800 He met her before church on Easter Day. 272 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,800 After hearing her story, Agel asked permission to hypnotize Claretta. 273 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,800 He wanted to see how readily she responded to suggestion. 274 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,800 She went out like a light. 275 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,800 His convinced Agel that Claretta's mind could influence her body to an exceptional degree. 276 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:02,800 She could use this technique to control the Stigmata, if she wished, with a little self-hypnosis. 277 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,800 A little bit more awake, not completely. 278 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,800 But what I want you to remember now is this. 279 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,800 That when you wish to do this for yourself, 280 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,800 you can look at any small object of your choice in a private, quiet place. 281 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,800 Count slowly to ten. 282 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,800 And by the time you reach ten, and you'll be in this very comfortable, relaxed state, 283 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:32,800 you will also have the ability, through this concentration, to keep it away if you want to. 284 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,800 It's something that you can use for yourself. 285 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,800 It will be your choice from now on. 286 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,800 This Easter, the New Light congregation was not treated to a display of Stigmata. 287 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:50,800 Could it be that Claretta can at last control the strange powers of her mind? 288 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,800 She is not someone who clearly is seeking pain and punishment. 289 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,800 However, what we do know more about is that she does have a very severe kind of conscience. 290 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:07,800 She has a strong sense of guilt if she feels that she does not do things right for other people. 291 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,800 Now, she is a very good hypnotic subject. 292 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,800 And that indicates that she has certain powers of concentration that many people do not have. 293 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,800 And that is that she can use concentration to go into a trance state 294 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,800 and perhaps to influence her body in various ways. 295 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,800 The hope is now that she will use some of that powers for her benefit, 296 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,800 as opposed to any way that is harmful to her. 297 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:56,800 Are stigmatics genuine? Yes, I believe that many of them are. 298 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,800 Whatever the medical explanation, Stigmata dramatically demonstrate 299 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,800 the almost miraculous power of religious faith. 300 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:41,800 I know that my heart is at that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, 301 00:25:41,800 --> 00:26:03,640 those, they might be trying the themselves as we put them in this book the eon I have never used. 302 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:04,400 Next We 높 ways teem 220 dorotors. 303 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,120 One thousand people went to the esau world Winter bind generator zeal men nettaena.